Historical fantasy as a genre has always puzzled me. In some sense all fantasy is historical, for the reasons you explain. It all comes from the past. It is fairytales and folklore and Norse myth, and Arthurian legend all mushed together and projected forward or backward or into strange worlds. It baffles me that people don't seem to recognize the Arthurian elements in Lord of the Rings: Aragorn is Arthur, Gandalf is Merlin, the fellowship of the ring are the knights of the round table, and the ring is the anti-grail. I never know whether to classify my own novel, Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight, as historical fantasy, or dark fantasy, as some seem to categorize it, or literary fairytale as I like to call it, or pseudo-Arthuriana, as another reviewer astutely dubbed it. It is all these things. And that seems to be true of most things in the genre. A little bit more of this. A little bit more of that. But basically all the same stew. It is, in the end, the spirit-haunted world, and it all flows back to what seems to us now, as it seemed to them then, a spirit-haunted time.
I think you misread, or possibly misremembered, The Perilous Guard. There is magic. It’s not very powerful, and tends to consist of things like illusions or talking people to sleep, but it exists and is very real - as the protagonist observes. Note the scene where her cross breaks. And yes, it’s relevant that it’s a cross.
Although, what is with you and good taste in literature?! That’s another little old one-shot paperback that was surprisingly good that nobody’s read!
(Those ones are always the hardest to find - you can usually notice an author is good and seek more out, but that doesn’t work if the author only ever wrote one or two books. Though in this case she wrote two; I thought the second was weaker, but still solidly worth reading.)
Oh, did you catch the second folk song? It’s built around two.
For a vaguely similar thing which is not European, have you read Bridge of Birds?
(I thought Moorchild was solid, but definitely a kids’ book, with less added when I read it as an adult than many other books. I have not read, or heard of, By These Ten Bones, but seeing the context in which it’s named I suddenly want to.)
Also re Masquerade, have you read War for the Oaks? I get the sense it’s a bit of a genre founder for that sort of urban fantasy, and she has a solid and yet not prosaic explanation for why the masquerade works, which would be a spoiler to explain if you haven’t. But from what you’re describing in this essay, you might like it.
Yes, beautiful symbolism about its being a cross! I didn't catch the second folksong, though, unless the song about "where is the queen" is a genuine folksong and not Pope's invention?
I suppose the powers of Those Under the Well, like psychoactive potions and talking people to sleep, can be read as magic; but between how they're presented and Kate's matter-of-fact tone, I didn't read them that way. I read them as hypnosis, the placebo effect, psychoactive drugs, and such. It may not be strictly accurate to how they work in the real world, but AFAIK it comes close - especially the scene where the Queen tries to talk Kate to sleep, and also how long it takes for them to talk Christopher into being ready for the ceremony. And, I think this interpretation fits much better into the tone of the book.
Haven't read "Bridge of Birds"; I'll put it on my list! I started "War for the Oaks," but abandoned it partway through when none of the characters really grabbed my interest.
(Sorry about getting back so late! I was getting "you have a response" emails and then I wasn't, and foolishly assumed no emails meant no response.)
Binorie oh, Binorie oh, by the bonny mill banks of Binorie. You know the song? Twa Sisters, Cruel Sister? "The older one pushed the younger in?" And the harp made from the maiden's breastbone and strung with her hair? It's commonly adapted. The entire frame-story setup, with Kate being jealous, ending with the Binorie scenario where both sisters love the same man but he only has eyes for the youngest, is leading up to that story - and averting it is the final crux, the thing that controls how the story will end.
My interpretation. But I've always seen it in balance between two folk songs, with making the one happen and the other *not* the essential tension of it.
I was quite sure it was magic at the time - it didn't seem as if hypnosis made sense, and the cross seems rather more powerful than it should be if it were only a bit of metal; my memory is it also works before she breaks it - but I'm not sure I've read it since I was fourteen, so I should definitely give it a reread. I read it as fairly subtle magic, and not very powerful - glamors rather than turning people into animals (or into a burning brand, snake, etc), oddly-easy-to-believe words instead of mind control, all things one can fight off with enough heroic willpower (and God's help) - but quite real. But I'll look back with that interpretation in mind!
Oh, thank you! I'd seen that song once but had forgotten about it till you reminded me! Yes, it's a beautiful aversion of that song, just like "Tam Lin" itself is an aversion of the Orpheus myth.
I read the power of the cross as coming more from a meta level than its having inherent power inside the story, something like the parallels and prophecies in "Doomsday Book." This story isn't quite happening at two levels, but sometimes it feels like it is, just like the hypnosis does feel like magic.
Dude if you haven't read The Traitor Son Cycle by Miles Cameron you need to. I reviewed it here: https://www.eleanorkonik.com/the-traitor-son-cycle-by-miles-cameron/
Thank you; I've put it on my To Read list!
Historical fantasy as a genre has always puzzled me. In some sense all fantasy is historical, for the reasons you explain. It all comes from the past. It is fairytales and folklore and Norse myth, and Arthurian legend all mushed together and projected forward or backward or into strange worlds. It baffles me that people don't seem to recognize the Arthurian elements in Lord of the Rings: Aragorn is Arthur, Gandalf is Merlin, the fellowship of the ring are the knights of the round table, and the ring is the anti-grail. I never know whether to classify my own novel, Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight, as historical fantasy, or dark fantasy, as some seem to categorize it, or literary fairytale as I like to call it, or pseudo-Arthuriana, as another reviewer astutely dubbed it. It is all these things. And that seems to be true of most things in the genre. A little bit more of this. A little bit more of that. But basically all the same stew. It is, in the end, the spirit-haunted world, and it all flows back to what seems to us now, as it seemed to them then, a spirit-haunted time.
I think you misread, or possibly misremembered, The Perilous Guard. There is magic. It’s not very powerful, and tends to consist of things like illusions or talking people to sleep, but it exists and is very real - as the protagonist observes. Note the scene where her cross breaks. And yes, it’s relevant that it’s a cross.
Although, what is with you and good taste in literature?! That’s another little old one-shot paperback that was surprisingly good that nobody’s read!
(Those ones are always the hardest to find - you can usually notice an author is good and seek more out, but that doesn’t work if the author only ever wrote one or two books. Though in this case she wrote two; I thought the second was weaker, but still solidly worth reading.)
Oh, did you catch the second folk song? It’s built around two.
For a vaguely similar thing which is not European, have you read Bridge of Birds?
(I thought Moorchild was solid, but definitely a kids’ book, with less added when I read it as an adult than many other books. I have not read, or heard of, By These Ten Bones, but seeing the context in which it’s named I suddenly want to.)
Also re Masquerade, have you read War for the Oaks? I get the sense it’s a bit of a genre founder for that sort of urban fantasy, and she has a solid and yet not prosaic explanation for why the masquerade works, which would be a spoiler to explain if you haven’t. But from what you’re describing in this essay, you might like it.
Yes, beautiful symbolism about its being a cross! I didn't catch the second folksong, though, unless the song about "where is the queen" is a genuine folksong and not Pope's invention?
I suppose the powers of Those Under the Well, like psychoactive potions and talking people to sleep, can be read as magic; but between how they're presented and Kate's matter-of-fact tone, I didn't read them that way. I read them as hypnosis, the placebo effect, psychoactive drugs, and such. It may not be strictly accurate to how they work in the real world, but AFAIK it comes close - especially the scene where the Queen tries to talk Kate to sleep, and also how long it takes for them to talk Christopher into being ready for the ceremony. And, I think this interpretation fits much better into the tone of the book.
Haven't read "Bridge of Birds"; I'll put it on my list! I started "War for the Oaks," but abandoned it partway through when none of the characters really grabbed my interest.
Binorie.
(Sorry about getting back so late! I was getting "you have a response" emails and then I wasn't, and foolishly assumed no emails meant no response.)
Binorie oh, Binorie oh, by the bonny mill banks of Binorie. You know the song? Twa Sisters, Cruel Sister? "The older one pushed the younger in?" And the harp made from the maiden's breastbone and strung with her hair? It's commonly adapted. The entire frame-story setup, with Kate being jealous, ending with the Binorie scenario where both sisters love the same man but he only has eyes for the youngest, is leading up to that story - and averting it is the final crux, the thing that controls how the story will end.
My interpretation. But I've always seen it in balance between two folk songs, with making the one happen and the other *not* the essential tension of it.
I was quite sure it was magic at the time - it didn't seem as if hypnosis made sense, and the cross seems rather more powerful than it should be if it were only a bit of metal; my memory is it also works before she breaks it - but I'm not sure I've read it since I was fourteen, so I should definitely give it a reread. I read it as fairly subtle magic, and not very powerful - glamors rather than turning people into animals (or into a burning brand, snake, etc), oddly-easy-to-believe words instead of mind control, all things one can fight off with enough heroic willpower (and God's help) - but quite real. But I'll look back with that interpretation in mind!
Oh, thank you! I'd seen that song once but had forgotten about it till you reminded me! Yes, it's a beautiful aversion of that song, just like "Tam Lin" itself is an aversion of the Orpheus myth.
I read the power of the cross as coming more from a meta level than its having inherent power inside the story, something like the parallels and prophecies in "Doomsday Book." This story isn't quite happening at two levels, but sometimes it feels like it is, just like the hypnosis does feel like magic.